So an untypical kid, who would have been an outsider, you join a band, you're an outsider there. You have a solo career and it's not long before that goes down the chute and you're an outsider on the music scene and in the wilderness as a performer, so much so that you have been quoted as saying the phone stopped ringing for Limahl until the 80's revival of the mid-90's by which time you were trying your hand as a producer. You've had you fair share, through the years, of weaving in and out of the music business and the public consciousness. How have you dealt with being an outsider?
Aren't we all outsiders? I mean you hear stories and more and more of them as we get older about families who don't speak over some quite stupid things. You're born alone and die alone, skirting through life on this bold adventure that you are never quite sure where it's going. You try to steer it and think you have some control. I don't feel like the outsider. In a city like London, it's easier to be a kind of single loner figure, you don't know your neighbours, you don't speak on the tube, we're all vaguely frightened of someone pulling a knife or a gun or whatever. And we're all busy going on our own journeys, I don't think I'm any different to anyone else really. As an artist I see myself more of a survivor because when that phone did stop ringing I just dealt with it. Gawd, I've seen people with heaps of money and success who are clearly not happy even with all that material wealth. But that's the cliché right there isn't it......money doesn't bring happiness, it just makes you a little more comfortable while you suffer, ha ha!! Anyway, I've been on the inside, so to speak, and it was fun for a while but in reality most artists will NOT have careers like Madonna or Elton John, those two are very much in the minority. I had two No' 1's which were huge global hits, so I think I've made a small, but very valid contribution. Does that make me an outsider ? I don't really think so, I've probably taken my respective place in the pop archives, so to speak, along with many other respectable and still hard working musicians/performers!! Anyhow, I am usually welcomed with great affection in most places that I perform and when it happens I do feel a little more wanted and respected which is nice. Besides, let's see where some of today's newer artists will be in 20 years ? Do I sound defensive? Ha ha!! I've dealt with it relatively well, all things considered......I've seen quite a few people and friends die from partying, drugs, HIV & AIDS, or completely fall apart after mental breakdowns, marriage problems, prison sentences etc etc, and here I am alive, well and happy still doing what I like to do plus earning well from it I might add. On top of all that, I have been in the most wonderful relationship for nearly thirteen years which I believe has influenced everything. It's my rock and everything stems from that. Life is for sharing and I'm bloody lucky I found someone to share the journey with. Mind you, I am a cheeky sod, when I first approached my partner in a nightclub, I was politely turned down but I didn't let a silly little thing like "no thanks" get in the way......and here we are thirteen fabulous years later !!
Do you think that drive to be a performer and to keep performing is to do with a desperation to communicate?
No, not a desperation to communicate. I do enjoy performing, I still do. I like the conditions to be right. I like to think I could stop if I was getting bored. I need money to live like anyone else. I need to work and at 30+, by the way that's my official age now 30 plus, this is what I've done all my life. I love it. There's certain things in the pipeline for me that will totally re-kindle all my early love of performing and that's important. If you're just gigging month in, month out doing the same old shit, then you're bound to get tired. I think so far, I keep doing interesting things. One day perhaps I'll start my own cosy little venue and maybe perform there occasionally but, until then, the Sagittarius in me adores to travel so I must go where my star sign leads me!!
If I were to play devil's advocate and you were coming up to me on a talent show or whatever, a 'Pop Idol', a 'Fame Academy' or any bastardised permutation of that kind of latter day 'Search for a Star' vehicle and I was to turn around to you and ask, "what have you got to say that other people couldn't say better" or "does your creativity matter?"
It matters for some people some of the time depending where they are in their own life. God if we all like the same thing then that would be boring. Different tastes are what makes the world go round. I had the radio on today and there's this thing on Radio 2 about pop trivia on the Ken Bruce show called Pop Master and sometimes I do really well and sometimes I don't, you can win a digital radio but you've got to name three top ten hits by a certain artist in 10 seconds and last week a guy couldn't even get one answer when the artist in question was The Three Degrees. I had four answers in 5 seconds flat, 'Dirty Old Man', 'My Simple Heart', 'When Will I See You Again', 'Year Of Decision' and others. Then today there was actually an artist that I hadn't heard of; my point is that it's fascinating how people are turned on by such different music. My creativity matters to some people and not others......different strokes for different folks. What I've got to say is my personal interpretation of whatever I'm trying to get across which some people will hopefully perceive and receive well......it's not a case of who's better, it's very subjective and it's all about taste.
What interests me about pop music is that at the outset most kids come into the business, they are marketed, they sing kind of proficiently, look good if a little cloned sometimes and we don't really expect their careers to last. But they are singing songs a lot of the time that are kind of commensurate with the kind of age they are, what I'm interested in, and what we don't see too much of, are pop stars like yourself who are ageing and looking fabulous on it too dear, I might add (grovel, grovel!) singing about your own 'here and now'. What is the fear about embracing the age that you are and singing about the concerns of middle age and being honest about that? Is it because there is no market? Is it because we are in a society that doesn't much care for sung stories that are about anyone but the very young? Is it a question of access to radio play? Is there little hope of any fresh material being played, material that might be listened to and bought by people who are in the same stage of life as the singer?
Great question. I think this comes down to the central issue, "what is a pop record?" It's a three and a half minute musical journey with hopefully something hooky that get's under your skin and makes you sing along, smile, dance or even cry. Occasionally there are other subjects; 'Neverending Story' was of course based loosely on the book. There's a real pressure to deliver what is expected of an artist by record company marketing departments and the constraints of the radio station format but one can at least be a little more experimental on album tracks and 'live' in concert. Great mavericks like Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' can and do break through thankfully and good luck to them. However, even then there is a danger with experimenting, we've all witnessed artists who climb so far up their own creative arse, they disappear......naming no names. I think there are plenty of artists who sing about growing older, love or whatever. Whether concerns of "middle age" as you so kindly put it, are marketable will depend on how the song works creatively as a musical piece. I think growing older and looking fabulous should be sung about......thanks for the idea and the compliment. We almost certainly do live in an ageist society but it's probably only the young that don't much care for sung stories that are about anyone but the very young , I think there's a huge audience for a broader spectrum, hence BBC Radio 2 audience figures now massively out performing Radio 1. Radio 2 is the new Radio 1 but even then don't hold your breath. It's fiercely competitive and they must keep the audience figures healthy which is why they're reluctant to venture too far away from the tried and tested radio station programme format.
I think what I am driving at is this. Are the hopes and dreams of somebody in love who is your age different in a way from kids who are in their 20's. Are there different things to write about on the topic of love through the experiences you've gained by being older?
Hmm, yes I know what you're trying to get out of me here. I do absolutely believe the hopes, dreams and the experience of love at my age - as you so diplomatically put it – is quite different to love at 20. But as I saw recently in that ever so charming movie "Ladies in Lavender", love unexpectedly rears it's lovely/ugly head (depending on your point of view) on Judi Dench's older woman character and the guy in question is merely in his 20's. To me it proved the point ever so accurately that love can still make you crumble and fall apart at 60 as if you were indeed just 20. Of course it's often about circumstances and where you are emotionally in your life but nevevertheless, no one is immune and that's almost comforting isn't it. That scenario from the movie I described in itself would invoke quite a different lyric and musical feeling of love experienced and gained by someone older which personally I find a lot more interesting. Emotional subjects that delve deeper are very appealing to moi, I think I'm a frustrated agony aunt or psychologist ha ha.
I want to explore that distinction between singer and artist. You can sing 'Too Shy' and 'Neverending Story' for the rest of your life, or at least until the voice packs up ! They are tunes which are in the public consciousness, part of our collective memory for those of us who grew up in the 1980's. But what do you want to say?
Until the voice packs up ?......what are you suggesting......I'm a trained singer you know, no nodules on the vocal chords por moi. Believe it or not, I still relish the challenge of sitting down and coming up with an idea. I want to sing about all kinds of things. I'm writing at the moment, but there is a ‘requirement' and I have to work within that requirement of what kind of material the record company think they can market as a Limahl tune. Recently I sat down with a guy who, kind of, plays jazz and we strayed into a totally new area for me, kind of into the 40's, Cole Porter, George Gershwin, that kind of thing. It was very exciting, songwriting without a remit, just vibing. In the way that I imagine 'Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay' might have been written. You imagine a guy sat on a rock with a guitar, with the sun beating down on him. I've still got great desires in musical theatre. I started in musical theatre and that sort of excitement has never really left me, I see everything I can on stage in the West End or on the fringe because I both enjoy it and I can claim it back on the tax ha ha. Of course, in musical theatre there are a lot less restrictions than there are on a three and a half minute pop record. If I was Robbie Williams or Kylie or Coldplay..... but even they are more or less restricted to that radio friendly 4 minutes.
Sure, there is perhaps a complacency that creeps into people of your position that it is comfortable to go out and ring in the money, and who wouldn't, for singing yesteryear's hits wherever you go. They're your calling card those three or four hits you had in the early 80's. Now forgive me here, because I am trying to wring a response out of you and because I think there is a distinction between an artist who creates and a singer who presents material. it must be addictive and flattering the response you get when you sing, primarily 'Too Shy' and 'Neverending Story', two truly fabulous pop moments that are part of popular memory now and people are delighted to hear those songs and delighted to see you in person singing them. But there is an artistic and creative side of yourself and let's face it, some people who have been pop stars in the past are quite happy to belt out their old hits, and take the money ‘thank you very much', I suppose along the lines of the old thespian's adage "say the lines, miss the furniture and go home". You are not just a pop singer, you have a theatrical background and you have ambitions in that area which might give you another kind of career longevity. But when you have a succession of gigs coming up and the safety of money, the creative side of you, which is there underneath all the froth of fame..... isn't it about time that you locked yourself away in your spare room a bit more to create and see where that journey went. Is it something that you are frightened of?
Hell no, I'm not frightened at all nor complacent!! It's just finding the right project to do. I'm not sticking myself away in a room to write an album that no-one is going to release, particularly without a record deal at the moment, so what's the point. In 1988 I was signed to Arista Records in New York by the legendary mogul Clive Davis who spent two hundred and fifty thousand dollars recording six songs (a lot of money then) then dropped me from the label. I spent seven years writing and producing for other artists from 1992 and I came up against so much political crap and bullshit that I just burnt out......I could go on and on, perhaps I'll put it all in a book one day, one of the obstacles was Simon Cowell, but that's another story ! It's all about who's managing who, who's shaking hands with who and who's doing drugs with who, so I've kinda done that and got the T Shirt. If I was absolutely unfalteringly rich then I would start a company and back my own ideas. I wouldn't have to go knocking on some 22 year old A+R guys door. Anyway I haven't got a spare room to lock myself in ha ha, I've deliberately filled all the rooms up.
To sum up, what you seem to be saying is that you are working hard within show business where the opportunities to re-invent yourself are fairly limited but you're still enthusiastic and far from just soldiering on?
I am indeed working hard and certainly still enthusiastic. There's lots of passion still there for me , lots of new things coming up and who knows..... that's part of the fun of my job. I never quite know where I'm going to be from year to year and I must admit, I like that. I mean in the summer I was in Paris to record with a big French DJ and that wasn't on the agenda in January, nor was the recording I'm currently doing in Germany or the 'Here And Now' tour I did last December with all the other 80's artists, which was great fun. I sometimes worry a bit because I know I'm an artist who had his two biggest hits 22 years ago but the work keeps coming in and frankly I'm grateful......I guess I must be doing something right. I don't think you can survive solely on singing your two biggest hits. All the re-bookings that I get to perform and let's face it, my diary is as busy as it was in 1984, I think that that says something about the way I present myself and perform, about my professionalism perhaps !!
Yes and I think with the distance we now have from the 1980's, people perhaps don't recall how many or how few hits those faces from the 80's had. I think many too just remember the visuals; I mean as a face of the 80's you're right up there with 'Boy George' and 'Phil Oakey', even if you aren't quite 'Margaret Thatcher' !! Highly memorable hair styles, fashions, colours and poses that people can from this distance take the piss out of because their was little subtle about anything from those years !! So you are remembered even though 'Culture Club' and the 'Human League' had more hits because of how striking the duo tone spikey mullet and dayglo angular clothes and that look, that pout etc.
Well, it's funny because I laugh with friends and say, I'm an antique now ! Like other stars from that age, as time goes by, we have all gained retrospective value. It's a different part of the career but is just as valid. My perception of what I do now is obviously completely different to how it was when I was 23 but I think it would be improper, not to acknowledge that validity.
When you think of yourself as a 23 year old and how canny you were at changing around the band, giving them a new identity, bringing in the synthesisers, even though you have confessed that you were jumping on a bandwagon, you styled the band, got them the break they needed. What do you think of that 23 year old now?
Oh God, when I was helping to build my website recently and really had to focus on the past, which I don't really ever give much thought to, I was digging out the old video footage, old photos and blowing off the dust, scanning it and all that. I was impressed and touched with all that I'd achieved when I looked back. So much hard work, I recognised the ambitious young fellow and took my hat off to myself in a way. I laughed too, looking at those early images, I did want to share them because in life I was always driven aesthetically. I liked and still like beautiful buildings, clothes, music, food, bodies etc and that's what I was trying to create, I worked hard at the image and I still do. If you're interesting visually then people are going to be a lot more attentive about what you are performing and when I really looked at myself at 23 I just went ‘Wow!', how the fuck did you get on that train dressed in that outfit in the middle of the day in 1981. And that's the wonderful thing, you don't have that kind of emotional baggage when you are 23, you just get on and do it! To sum up I'd say that looking at the 23 year old Limahl now puts a wry smile on my face.
One final and potentially, or pretentiously, deliciously interesting question from my depraved point of view and it's this supposition I put to you; 'No Kajagoogoo, no Limahl'? Looking at the trajectory of your career in musical theatre and where you were getting to at the time you re-located to Leighton Buzzard to concentrate on all things 'Kajagoogoo'. If they hadn't have happened, there was quite a strong possibility that you would have continued working in some capacity in musical theatre; you'd done four theatre shows and were getting fairly regular work. Is that a lost career that you can pick up now?
It's true I started in theatre and that love never leaves you, once you've done it you're hooked!! Hell, I've been paying my 'Equity' (The Actors Union) subscription for twenty years sweetie so doing more theatre would simply be moving toward something that is already in my blood, but lets see what happens, there's a strong possibility of more theatre roles imminently but I don't want to jinx it and give any more away than that, Lets just say, watch this space......
But there's a distinct possibility that you would have had a career in musical theatre anyway?
Yes I suppose so, it was the beginnings of a career but I guess you could say the chances of making it in the pop world were just as remote; thankfully I gave it a go and it worked out. I don't know where the theatre career would have gone and that's another juicy 'what if' question !!
How would you describe your voice......it's got a bit of vibrato in it, a bit of warmth?
Smooth, and definitely warm, akin to George Michael I suppose and I'm good at getting it to work for what I need it to do and that's important. You've got to be able to make your instrument work well and getting the best from it. Singers get into bad habits and one of them is using too much vibrato, so I watch that.
Well let's hope you put that smooth, warm, minimal vibrato voice to some good use in the near future Limahl, good luck with all your projects.
You mean this is the end ? Thank god, I thought this interview was never ending - sorry couldn't resist - I've got through four cups of tea and need to pay a visit !!
Limahl is a keen cyclist, a strict vegetarian and lives in Primrose Hill (north London) with his partner of 13 years.
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